Tuesday, May 5, 2009

Joe the Plumber didn't get the memo

From GOP-HQ about "outreach" and "inclusion":

I've had some friends that are actually homosexual. And, I mean, they know where I stand, and they know that I wouldn't have them anywhere near my children.
I'd be interested to see a poll, in which the opinions of parents with children under 18 were compared to non-parents.

This poll showing a "generation gap" on gay issues doesn't break down the demographics that way. My gut hunch is that the support for gay marriage among the young -- supposedly a harbinger of dramatic social change -- mostly evaporates if you distinguish married from unmarried, and parents from the childless. That is to say, married parents will always be more conservative.

The tendentious supposition that the high rates of pro-gay-rights attitudes among 18-to-34-year-olds will remain constant as this cohort older doesn't take into account the likelihood that today's 19-year-old liberal college student will some day be a 29-year-old conservative suburban soccer mom. Remember that the liberal youth of the 1960s and '70s drifted rightward in the 1980s and '90s.

Much easier to be "tolerant" and "open-minded" when you're a 25-year-old bachelor than when you're a 35-year-old husband and father. And just wait until you become a 49-year-old curmudgeon like me!

Dadgum smart-alecky whippersnappers think they know everything . . .

UPDATE: Dan Riehl on Joe's remarks about gays and children:
I suspect the attitude is still more widespread than people think.
Exactly. College-educated people working in professional environments -- especially people in academia, politics and communications -- must internalize a basic level of political correctness. There are things you can't say, attitudes you can't exhibit, if you are going to work at a major university (as Lawrence Summers learned at Harvard). And so you get used to never encountering certain attitudes.

Once you get outside that elite professional environment, however, you meet the Ordinary American -- the guy who sees what he sees, knows what he knows, believes what he believes, and is not afraid to speak his mind about this stuff.

The elite recoil in horror whenever some Ordinary American type (e.g., Sarah Palin or Glenn Beck) gets anywhere near the levers of power. What the elite are trying to do to Joe Wurzelbacher, they have done to many others: Joe McCarthy, Barry Goldwater, Pat Buchanan, to name just a few.

What they're trying to do is to imply that Wurzelbacher's beliefs are dangerous, that he is ignorant and guilty of a "hatred" that endangers his fellow citizens. Nonsense. There are tens of millions of decent, law-abiding Americans who believe exactly like Joe the Plumber believes, and none of them has ever harmed anyone.


  1. As Winston Churchill said, “If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.” (or something to that affect) Getting a little life experience under the belt helps give a person perspective as they get older.

  2. so.....no conservative who is 45 trusts his homosexual friends around is children? So Joe, the Plumber, is brilliant, no matter what he says?

    If Joe, the Plumber, is correct, and if homosexual=child molester, then why are we even allowing homosexuals any "civil liberties" for homosexuals?

    I did not know that homosexuals molest children.

    But then, I also did not know being conservative meant, "I am conservative and anything Joe, the Plumber says speaks for me because who knows how many decent people have thoughts like his and who am I to examine anything someone who says that he is conservative says because liberals and the MSM are always much worse, so situational ethics tells me, 'Circle the wagons, boys, incoming!' whenever anyone I like says anything".

    But it IS good to know about conservative bloggers, editors and opinion makers that there are no lines a friend can cross, if regular people probably also think a thought.

  3. Tom: I am certainly not someone who plays that way. I've gotten all kinds of grief for criticizing, inter alia, Bristol Palin, and Carrie Prejean. My support for Bob Barr's Libertarian presidential campaign did not endear me to certain conservatives who considered it a patriotic duty to vote for John McCain.

    It's just that Joe's expressed belief -- that he doesn't want homosexuals near his kids -- is quite common and, so far as I can tell, almost entirely harmless. Joe is, as Burke said of the British, a man "of untaught feelings." Burke meant that as a term of high praise.

  4. Just think of the elected Homosexuals? Barney Frank ran a male prostitution ring from his DC Apartment. Jim McGreevy placed his lover in charge of New Jersey Department of Homoland Security despite the fact he had no experience. Mark Foley. Larry Craig. The percentages are amazing. Yes heterosexual politicians have had problems but not in such high percentages as Homosexuals.

  5. Quote:"I did not know that homosexuals molest children."

    Well, car thieves, alcoholics, or, say, stock manipulators don't molest children either. Nevertheless, there is a question of influence and example. Would you want them around your children?

  6. I see that his comment started out as "At a state level, it's up to them. I don't want it to be a federal thing."

    He should have stopped there.

  7. Stacy: Please note the falling rates of marriage. If a majority of Americans never marries, your cause of optimism disappears.

  8. Yes, I would want homosexuals near my daughter. I am a Mass attending Catholic (envelope # 34) and Mass is my happiest hour and a half of the week, and I sometimes attend shorter Daily Mass. My wife and I have one daughter. (We tried for more....)

    Been married 34 years. I pride myself on one marriage in my lifetime.

    I have never known a child molester, homosexual or heterosexual. There are cultural differences with gay people, but otherwise, my friends are all hard-working and share values whether they are liberal, conservative, or, as is too often the case with Americans, in that muddled middle who think "Politics don't matter. They are all a bunch of bums."

    We allowed our daughter to interact with homosexuals. She is 25 and straight. One boyfriend. She did not contract homosexuality from knowing some people were gay.

    I am sorry if this sounds "preachy". I am tryng to sound neutral. I really do not understand fear of homosexuality. Never wanted to be one myself.

    As far as I know. only Jehova's Witnesses and 7th Day Adventists recruit, and they bore me. Homosexuals live their life and when they band together can be obnoxious, but so can anyone who bands together. It is the nature of banding together that makes people obnoxious.

  9. As someone who was molested and raped by a homosexual, I'm cautious who my boys interact with. If I even suspect a hint of fairyness then there will be no contact. I don't mind telling them why either. It's so funny that people talk about not knowing homosexuals molest children, however seem to ignore groups like NAMBLA. Preach all you want about tolerance, I'm sure my parents wish they were a little less tolerant back when I was 10. It's disgusting that we are endangering children everywhere just to be politically correct. Alternative lifestyles lead to alternative boundaries. What's another law of nature to break if you've already gotten used to doing it? Sure there are lots of straight men and women molesting opposite sex kids too. It's the hidden sin of the world. Bottom line is keep your kids safe and be leery of anyone. If you think your kid at 10 knows more than they should about sex then you had better be checking who's in contact with them. PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN!

  10. It's so funny that people talk about not knowing homosexuals molest children, however seem to ignore groups like NAMBLA.Yeah, it seems Tom wants to know only so much about homosexuals, when a trip to his local gay bookstore would totally fuck up his narrative, so he avoids it. "Artistic" pictures of ephebic boys (circa 14-17 years) are all the rage - it's really part of the mainstream of male homosexual sexuality (both historically and in the present day). I suppose he's never taken a course in Greek Art or mythology. You can probably find that stuff on Amazon, but that might be trying too hard for Tom, who clearly has it all figured out.

    I'm also rather certain that Tom didn't leave his precious 16 year old daughter and friends alone with a 23 year old, hetero male Girl Scout leader, probably because he knows better. I'm not quite sure what makes the same man, if gay, "special" enough to be around 16 year old boys in the same capacity, unless you've allowed yourself to be re-educated to some degree.

  11. I have behaved on this sight so far, sort of, but I have got to call these out:

    "Yes, I would want homosexuals near my daughter"

    I have heard this token tripe before. What kind of social sickness pervades a mind that has a Minority Report Checklist for "types" of people they want near their kids.

    I understand the desire for kind, stable, loving, etc... types, but this statement, often drooling out of the maw of the leftist, is Orwellian. It's social eugenics.

    Tom: "Ooh, this week, I want some gays near my daughter.

    Next week, we will get some blacks near her.

    Wait, how can I get some Mexican bi-sexuals near her?"

    To speak of homosexuals as a race or ethnic group is the prime ignorance of the left. Sexuality is a miasma of behaviors, and we can't even prove people are born straight. Yet the liberal has arbitrarily decided what is genetic to fit their political agenda. It is the left's primary article of faith, Sexual Predestination, a fundamentalist belief.

    These paint by numbers friend collecting trolls are the first ones to flee to McMansion subdivisions and get as far away from "the element" as they can.

    They are pleased with their intrepid race relations skills when they drive up in their Prius and smile at a non-white Starbucks or fast food worker.

    As far as gays go, only the Will & Grace or Clinton Stacy token elite will do, the other "type" of gays are to be ignored.

    The type at the 'bookstore', public bathroom, or Barney Frank's house. (He ran man ho's)

    "I have never known a child molester,"

    Then you never watched a Woody Allen film.

    They don't typically introduce themselves as such. It's like talking politics with your boss. It's not a good idea unless you think everybody is on the same page.

    I knew one. He introduced himself to me when I was 16 in a public park bathroom. After looking over the urinal divider and scaring the holy hell out of me, he offered me a blowjob.

    I declined the offer. You would be amazed how you have nothing smart to say to a strange dude that offers to suck your 16 year old dick.

    I would like to meet him again, now that I am much older and over a hundred pounds heavier.

    I bet he is a gym teacher somewhere today, and that's okay with you.

  12. "I have behaved on this sight so far..."

    Spellchucked again!

  13. I have some gay/bi friends (I'm 20 and identify as Libertarian) that would be appalled at the mere idea of molesting a kid.

    To quote "Anon":
    Yeah, it seems Tom wants to know only so much about homosexuals, when a trip to his local gay bookstore would totally fuck up his narrative, so he avoids it. "Artistic" pictures of ephebic boys (circa 14-17 years) are all the rage - it's really part of the mainstream of male homosexual sexuality (both historically and in the present day).Ok, see, I didn't know about that stuff at all, but pederasty (I believe that's the word) has indeed existed in many countries throughout the world. Japan, Rome, and of course the aforementioned Greece.

    Personally, if I had kids (I know that I'm 20, and therefore proving your point), I would not want anyone near them that was not a trusted friend of whom I had long known the character--regardless of sexual orientation.

    However, it's a fact--and a sad one--that there's been a disturbing amount of molesting of children by gay men. Sure, I don't think that every gay guy is salivating over little Billy or Tommy, but it's something to be aware of, that it exists. And yes, some straight guys do the same thing. Some straight or gay women do that. So it is an unpleasant truth that children get molested--and a parent is more likely to care and discriminate accordingly, under the desire to keep their kids safe, than a teenybopper who has been spoon-fed the "don't form bad opinions about anyone...unless they disagree about forming bad opinions about people."

    I hate to say that parents ought not be banned from discriminating, because if you want to keep your kids safe, you have to be aware of these things--but I guess I still feel uncomfortable with the idea of discriminating against gay people. I feel that's natural, since no one really enjoys making others feel bad about themselves (with the possible exception of the Left, who loves to do that). But to refuse to be aware of any possible dangers is really hampering oneself-even if being aware does hurt a few feelings here and there.

  14. Joe W's fear of homosexuals coming into contact with his children is irrational and flatly offensive. It assumes that gays are all alike: Forward, lewd, interested in "recruiting," etc. It strips homosexuals of their individuality. It is the product of ignorance.

    I think about Joe's noisy patriotism, his loud "Support the Troops" mentality. Then I think: There are gay men fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan now. There are gay men who have lost legs and arms for their country. Some have lost their lives. Why? To defend Joe's right to be a bigot.

    Does Joe men like Marine Staff Sergeant Eric Alva, an amputee and decorated Iraq vet, to stay away from his kids? Is there no virtue to be found in a person who is drawn to a person of the same sex by no choice of their own?

    I also think of my uncle, a gay man. What a guy he is. Really great. One of my favorite family members. Bikes, plays ball, likes adventure/shooting movies . . . didn't even realize he was queer until my mom (his sister) told me when I was in my mid teenage years.

    Why would Joe want to ostracize him? He has no damn interest in the Wurzie kids!

    That guy is a fool.

  15. Joe wouldn't want his kids around Herman Melville? Alexander the Great? Walt Whitman? John Maynard Keynes? The emperor Hadrian? Sir Francis Bacon? Leonard Bernstein? W.H. Auden?

    Ah, the limitations of ignorance...


  16. Quote: ".... Herman Melville? Alexander the Great? Walt Whitman? John Maynard Keynes? The emperor Hadrian? Sir Francis Bacon? Leonard Bernstein?"

    The Unabomber had highly developed mental faculties and extensive career accomplishments too. That doesn't make him a good nanny. Let those of that peculiar bizarrity look after their own children.

  17. Gay marriage is coming, and eventually people who oppose it will look as ridiculous as people who oppose inter-racial marriage.