tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post7173931347714227577..comments2024-02-24T00:37:43.087-05:00Comments on The Other McCain: Rick Moran and the Comatose NuthouseRobert Stacy McCainhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03084541621503669804noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-19150296020994494312009-11-04T12:25:42.052-05:002009-11-04T12:25:42.052-05:00I have revised and extended my remarks at
Aborti...I have revised and extended my remarks at <br /><br /><a href="http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2009/11/abortion-is-murder.html" rel="nofollow">Abortion Is Murder</a><br /><br />The comments are not pre-moderated (and I moderate with a very light hand) so the discussion should be a tad livelier. <br /><br />I invite my social conservative friends to comment.<br /><br />And for the moderator here. I link back.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-11130102210015913622009-11-04T11:32:44.304-05:002009-11-04T11:32:44.304-05:00You mean the women are not at least accomplices in...You mean the women are not at least accomplices in premeditated murder? Then abortion is not really murder is it?<br /><br />Suppose there is no doctor. Just a black market RU-485 pill. Or ergot. Or oxytocin. Or a heavy dose of birth control pills. Still not murder? <br /><br />It would be really nice to see a person with real conviction arguing that abortion is murder. I have yet to find one.<br /><br />The question for me is enforcement. How intrusive will the government have to get to make it work? Weekly pregnancy tests? (the Drug War precedent) And of course with new technology coming on line - maybe electronic sniffers to look for changes in the body. Then every miscarriage becomes a murder investigation. <br /><br />Wouldn't it be safer for your liberties to keep government out of it and just convince women not to have an abortion?M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-4562606454796652302009-11-04T06:18:04.745-05:002009-11-04T06:18:04.745-05:00M. Simon: women were not, and would not be charge...M. Simon: women were not, and would not be charged with murder for procuring an abortion. It is the doctors that the law goes after. <br /><br />The argument that it has to stay legal because people will do it anyway is absurd. If that was a valid argument we could legalize rape too, since people obviously still do it anyway.The Indentured Servant Girlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04496278212034311109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-83986698183323320372009-11-04T01:08:31.755-05:002009-11-04T01:08:31.755-05:00BD,
So BD did you learn something from NY23?
Do...BD,<br /><br />So BD did you learn something from NY23? <br /><br />Do you still think that listening to libertarian Republicans is beneath you? <br /><br />Well you know how it goes. After hubris comes nemesis. <br /><br />It is quite possible that you might want to re-evaluate your position on a libertarian/social conservative coalition after what happened in NY23 on Tuesday.<br /><br />And pardon for recycling part of another comment. It just seemed so apt. If somewhat redundant.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-9233687482108497272009-11-03T17:37:21.106-05:002009-11-03T17:37:21.106-05:00BD,
Here is a data point Illinois 2004:
Obama 3,...BD,<br /><br />Here is a data point Illinois 2004:<br /><br />Obama 3,597,456<br />Keyes 1,390,690<br /><br />Total 4,988,146<br /><br />===<br /><br />Kerry 2,891,550<br />GBush 2,345,946<br /><br />Total 5,237,946<br /><br />I leave it to you to tease some meaning out of those numbers.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-6790788814002569722009-11-03T16:59:30.842-05:002009-11-03T16:59:30.842-05:00BD,
Who said anything about dictating? I believe ...BD,<br /><br />Who said anything about dictating? I believe that is the job of the socons.<br /><br />I'm suggesting how it might be possible to gather Republican votes outside socon strongholds once the Obama scare is over.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-57929796395775970042009-11-03T16:47:23.394-05:002009-11-03T16:47:23.394-05:00M. Simon:
First, get off your high horse - I doub...M. Simon:<br /><br />First, get off your high horse - I doubt you can teach me much about politics & I've read enough of your stuff to tell you you have no standing to exhibit such condescension and arrogance.<br /><br />Second, at 23%, your "libertarians" aren't the senior partner of anything and don't get to dictate, not to conservatives or, for that matter, to liberals (should you choose to go that way). In politics, as in all things, you get to decide whether, on balance, you're going to do business with someone. The moment you get into telling the 40% "I'm not staying if you're going to talk about issues you care about which I don't like", you're out the door.<br /><br />Third, everyone invents this boogie-man of social conservatives that doesn't exist. "Make aboriton illegal"? <br /><br />Do you care more about people wanting something that's a 50+ year project (if it's even possible) or the folks who could adopt public funding of abortion tomorrow?<br /><br />If you tell Democrats "Hey, we're with you, but no public funding" are they going to say "Oh, sure ... we didn't know it bothered you so"? Or would they politely tell you "We're committed to unrestricted abortion, which means public funding"? <br /><br />The Dem position isn't hard to figure out: absolute right to abortion - unlimited partial birth abortions, no parental notice or consent, no restriction on referral of minors to abortion provider and public funding at any stage of pregnancy.<br /><br />All of which they could adopt by majority votes & a presidential signature.<br /><br />As opposed to people who, you say, want to make abortion illegal, which would require<br /><br />* reversal of Roe and is progeny, because no such statute would survive a constitutional challenge if Roe, et al. is alive;<br /><br />* reversal of any and all state Supreme Courts which have found "Roe" rights in their state constitutions;<br /><br />* after all that, adoption of state and/or federallaws which make abortion illegal.<br /><br />* and then, after all that, the existence of local officals willing to enforce those laws.<br /><br />Like you, I can see the groundswell of support for the local state attorney who chose to prosecute a young lady for having an abortion .... (sarcasm intended).<br /><br />In short, there's not a scintilla of a smidgen of a chance of a law outlawing abortion being adopted, let alone being enforced, any time soon, but you're more worried about people who wish for such a thing than people who can help blow up the budget (which you say is your prime concern) by adopting public financing laws right now.<br /><br />Why is that? You stake out a "middle" position for libertarians (leave it alone, but no public funding), yet you train your fire only on the side with little to no chance of getting its preferred policy while practically ignoring the one that's working legislation through Congress which will most likely result in exactly what you say you're against?<br /><br />And that's your big "single issue"???<br /><br />With all due respect, you don't care about fiscal sanity very much.<br /><br />As far as California is concerned - oh please ... don't even try for a second to blame the sorry state of the Republican Party in California on "social conservatives." Not even as a bad joke.<br /><br />Lastly: <br /><br />Social cons aren't "entitled" to libertarian votes (and I never said they were).<br /><br />No one is entitled to a vote, period. They have to be earned (John Houseman comes to mind).BDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08890441868492239563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-3165161716943107092009-11-03T14:20:37.368-05:002009-11-03T14:20:37.368-05:00The function of government should be the defense o...The function of government should be the defense of the inherent rights of the individual citizen, business between states, and the common defense.<br /><br />Every thing else is overreach by a tyranny in waiting. If being committed to resisting such overreach makes me unpalatable to the RINO GOP marks me as "brain dead" or a "tea bagger" (dealt with an individual who used that appelation to my face just this past weekend. He forgot that keyboards and flatscreens are not nearly reality) then the GOP has formally abandoned its reason for existence and it must be replaced as completely and expeditiously as possible with a national party dedicated to Constitutional government.<br /><br />We are at the precipice but there is still time to halt the catastrophe.<br /><br />However, if the high profile local elections being held today become a text book case of the fraud and theft that the Left intends for 2010, and we allow such acts to stand, then all bets are off.TmjUtahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07479506083401061662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-78645760171831104252009-11-03T11:14:40.999-05:002009-11-03T11:14:40.999-05:00Smitty
"Great minds think alike"!
I agr...Smitty<br />"Great minds think alike"!<br /><br />I agree 100%<br /><br />an old exJarhead<br />Cerritos, CAlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-54321931062701574172009-11-03T11:00:08.007-05:002009-11-03T11:00:08.007-05:00Alright calling Rick a moron is a bit over the top...Alright calling Rick a moron is a bit over the top. You don't agree with his politics fine, but can we stop with trashing him that way? I like the guy, even if I disagree with his takes being libertarian/fiscal conservative. <br /><br />"You don't get it. Social Conservatives think they are Entitled to libertarian votes. "<br /><br />Oh so true... but funny how the favour is never given back to libertarians.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-80573118762260095142009-11-03T09:58:16.502-05:002009-11-03T09:58:16.502-05:00Newt cannot and should not be rehabilitated. He&#...Newt cannot and should not be rehabilitated. He's a total sleeze and he needs to go away forever. <br /><br />Weathervane politicians like him are desperate to get control of the tea party movement, and they must not be allowed to do so, as they will takeover, and neutralize what the movement represents. <br /><br />Doesn't anyone remember that the contract with American never shrunk the size of government? In fact they actually increased the budgets of 95 of the programs the contract promised to eliminate.<br /><br />Please. We don't need that liar. The fact that he could actually consider running for president, given his background as a serial adulterer, and not be heckled to death by is a sad commentary on how low we have sunk as a culture.<br /><br />Oh, and note to Mrs. Newt---good Catholic girls don't go fishing for husbands in the married pond.The Indentured Servant Girlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04496278212034311109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-79423067523584745692009-11-03T04:19:45.113-05:002009-11-03T04:19:45.113-05:00I have revised and extended my remarks and given y...I have revised and extended my remarks and given you a link at:<br /><br /><a href="http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2009/11/national-party.html" rel="nofollow">A National Party</a>M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-85201668325645304352009-11-03T01:43:02.655-05:002009-11-03T01:43:02.655-05:00BD,
Since you don't understand politics let m...BD,<br /><br />Since you don't understand politics let me explain it to you. But first let me say that the Republicans have to get more in line with their fiscal conservative, limited government rhetoric.<br /><br />But there are other considerations too. The limits of what are possible for a Presidential candidate are the swing voters. How far can a candidate go and attract enough swing voters to win a national election? Or even State wide elections.<br /><br />One only need look at how social conservatives have destroyed Republican chances in California. Giving the State to Democrats who have destroyed the State. And why has Arnie caved? Well he was not very principled. But that is only part of the problem. He has no significant support in the legislature. <br /><br />I don't see why Republicans can't take that message to heart. <br /><br />The difficulty is that social conservatism is concentrated in the South. It may be 40% of the nation but 60 to 80% of that 40% is concentrated in the South. So the votes of social Conservatives are diluted every where else. <br /><br />That means that outside the South the Party must become more libertarian to attract the swing voters. It is just like they say in the military. You can't win wars if you can't read a map. <br /><br />And what does that mean overall? A National Party will likely be around 50% libertarian even if their % of the party is only 30 to 40%. <br /><br />I'm against big spending RINOs. I favor limited government libertarians (fiscally conservative, socially liberal) where only they can win. You know - California, Illinois, Wisconsin, Oregon, Washington, New York, New Jersey, etc.<br /><br />And the party platform should reflect that even if social conservatives are the majority of the party.<br /><br />That is a basis for a national political party. And from what I can tell so far it is Palin's strategy. She is one very smart lady. She can read a map.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-29652163106946933782009-11-03T01:04:59.789-05:002009-11-03T01:04:59.789-05:00BD,
You don't get it. Social Conservatives th...BD,<br /><br />You don't get it. Social Conservatives think they are <b>Entitled</b> to libertarian votes. <br /><br />Let us take the HOT button of abortion:<br /><br />I am against government paying for it. I am against them forcing doctors and hospitals to perform them.<br /><br />I'm also against making it illegal. More from practical grounds than moral ones although my moral objections are not very strong. And what is my objection: the US does not need another black market. The drug war should be instructive in that regard if Republicans have wit enough to learn from it. Esp. with RU-485 about and the possibility of using birth control pills as a morning after solution. <br /><br />And then there is the political angle. The subject is political suicide if the Rs go with the social Conservative position (which is inconsistent) that abortion is murder. And why is it inconsistent? Because you have no intention of charging women who have abortions with pre-meditated murder. <br /><br />Put the subject in the social sphere where it belongs.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-36458884142878202672009-11-02T23:05:45.187-05:002009-11-02T23:05:45.187-05:00narciso,
I actually was faced with the choice bet...narciso,<br /><br />I actually was faced with the choice between a Culture Warrior and a Communist in the 2004 Senate elections in my State. I voted for the Communist as did a LOT of other Republicans.<br /><br />Look up Bush/Kerry and Keyes/Obama in Illinois in 2004 and do the math. It will astound you. <br /><br />Of course in 2008 I was McCain all the way (You know "F^*k It McCain '08). And then Sarah got the nod and I was actually happy. And why not. Sarah had pretty good libertarian creds. <br /><br /><a href="http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2009/11/why-mccain-picked-palin.html" rel="nofollow">Why McCain Picked Palin</a><br /><br />And I'm voting against the Communist no matter what in 2012. And if I'm alive in 2016 and the Rs put up a Culture Warrior in 2016 I will vote Communist. <br /><br />I want limited government and I mean it. And I intend with my feeble voice to punish which ever (or both) Party doesn't get it.<br /><br />Why? Because I agree with Jefferson:<br /><br /><b>I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.</b><br />Thomas Jefferson <br /><br />The Rs had better figure it out. And it wouldn't hurt if the Ds got the message as well.<br /><br />I want <b>LIMITED</b> government and I'm willing to destroy the country (at the ballot box) and start over if I have to to get it. <br /><br />I'm sick and tired of the Rs who pay lip service to fiscal responsibility. I'm sick and tired of Rs who pay lip service to limited government. <br /><br />I'm sick and tired of the Drug War. I'm sick and tired of the anti-gay politics (I don't give a damn what people think in their private lives) of the Ds and the Rs. The D's attack on Larry Craig was most hypocritical. <br /><br />And the one thing I can say positive about Mr. Obama is that he at least recognizes Federalism when it comes to Medical MJ. Kudos for him even if it is baby steps.<br /><br />So is the Republican Party really a big tent or is it the Social Conservative Party? We shall see.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-3873514913404980892009-11-02T22:29:54.484-05:002009-11-02T22:29:54.484-05:00Smitty:
First, apologies to you for directing the...Smitty:<br /><br />First, apologies to you for directing the post to Stacy. I TRY to keep an eye on "Who's on first......"<br /><br />Second, for M. Simon - <br /><br />23% + 40% is only "something" if both are present in the coalition - 23% isn't going to get very far on its own, so maybe it's going to have to learn to (gasp) "tolerate" some things in the 40% that aren't its cup of tea.<br /><br />Which (IMO) is about 90% of the problem with the Morans, et al. - they seem to think Republicans are entitled to social conservative votes, that they have an obligation to show up & vote "R" regardless of whether they ever get anything for their trouble. Which, come to think of it, pretty well explains that arrogant dismissive attitude Moran, et al. have toward social cons.<br /><br />What Moran, et al. demonstrate with this response to NY 23 is they're not interested in a "big tent" at all - not if it's going to mean actually doing anything to earn social con votes.BDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08890441868492239563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-65563935438687080612009-11-02T21:47:53.155-05:002009-11-02T21:47:53.155-05:00I used to read RWNH quite a bit a few years ago, b...I used to read RWNH quite a bit a few years ago, but, Rick slowly started going down the same road that some other squishy RINO's were going. Like Ballon Juice. Folks who seem to want to stick their fingers in the air like Clinton, to see which way they should show their beliefs. <br /><br />What they do not get is that Conservatives hold basic beliefs, regardless of which way the wind blows. The Constitution, State's Rights, National Defense, the primacy of the individual, limited government, minimal taxation, power of The People. Did I mention the primacy of the individual? In essences, the 3 Cores of Classical Liberalism: the government stays out of our personal lives (Moral Core,) limited involvement in the economy (Economic Core,) and is open and fair (Political Core.)<br /><br />After that, you get into niche values, such as gay marriage, illegal immigration, abortion, etc. To each his/her own.<br /><br />What wishy washy folks like Rick do not get is that we expect Republicans to act like Conservatives, not Democrat Lite.William Teachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11447753680268439618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-87349302033068682962009-11-02T21:37:32.588-05:002009-11-02T21:37:32.588-05:00I almost felt sorry for the guy after reading it, ...I almost felt sorry for the guy after reading it, but then I thought about it for a few seconds and said 'Nahhhhhh!'.<br /><br />Quoted from and Linked to at: <b><a href="http://www.thecampofthesaints.com/2009.11.01_arch.html#1257208045245" rel="nofollow">NY-23 LINK RALLY</a></b>Bob Belvederehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17220595844172546069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-81674360729238452852009-11-02T20:46:10.207-05:002009-11-02T20:46:10.207-05:00What Moran (and a lot of others) miss is that the ...What Moran (and a lot of others) miss is that the Republican Party has nothing to lose by going Conservative.<br /><br />Anybody who truly believes that communitarian policies and mass centralization is a good thing is going to vote for the Democrat. Trying to attract that vote by moving the "big tent" to the left is a futile endeavor. If they want Democrats, they'll vote for Democrats, not Republican imitations.<br /><br />So Republicans gain nothing by moving left, and lose the conservative base. Moving right would attract right-leaning independents, who currently have no place to look. I don't see the downside, even using the "sports team" analogy.<br /><br />Regards,<br />RicRic Lockehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08937543097881679980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-7722100620661758772009-11-02T20:06:05.212-05:002009-11-02T20:06:05.212-05:00I know you say that for effect. Mr. Simon, but don...I know you say that for effect. Mr. Simon, but don't even joke about such things, it's been bad enough with the first year of this popular front<br />regimenarcisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11082023858427818263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-41993398330299729832009-11-02T19:53:10.377-05:002009-11-02T19:53:10.377-05:00I first crossed swords with Moran in 2004 and real...I first crossed swords with Moran in 2004 and realized what a moron he is. I decided then that he had nothing to say worth my time. I see he hasn't changed.Sara (Pal2Pal)http://www.pal2pal.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-8817007688484277732009-11-02T19:50:04.879-05:002009-11-02T19:50:04.879-05:00Socons can win the debate and lose the election.
...Socons can win the debate and lose the election. <br /><br />That old hubris thing. Keep an eye on it. <br /><br />So what is the minimum that we can acceptably agree on?<br /><br />1. Smaller government<br />2. Lower spending<br />3. Lower taxes<br /><br />Stick with that and you have a long term winner.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-267124245305879472009-11-02T19:44:23.079-05:002009-11-02T19:44:23.079-05:00Small "l" libertarians have gotten very ...Small "l" libertarians have gotten very little from their support of Republicans.<br /><br />Do you suppose we could work together to end the $50 bn a year wasted on the drug war? Nah. Well I guess I'm going to have to support the Communists from time to time. <br /><br />BTW I agree about the direct election of Senators. It killed the power of the States.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-813092115718701222009-11-02T19:21:44.794-05:002009-11-02T19:21:44.794-05:00Uh, Rick who? Or is it Who cares?
"Because I...Uh, Rick who? Or is it Who cares?<br /><br />"Because I too, believe this country is in enormous trouble. But the way the base is going about trying to overcome the political deficit that George Bush and his cronies placed the Republican party will only lead to permanent minority status for conservatives."<br /><br />...and your solution, Mr. Who?, is to support, like Newt, another liberal that calls herself a Republican. Not me. Newt made a huge mistake and, by doing so, marginalized his effectiveness. Where is he now? He could have gone to New York and campaigned for Hoffman today. Instead he is hiding somewhere licking his wounds. Too bad. Admit your error, Newt, and come on back home.cdorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13692378691739415168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-50261249104228832322009-11-02T19:12:55.968-05:002009-11-02T19:12:55.968-05:00I dunno. Gallup says 23% of Americans lean liberta...I dunno. Gallup says 23% of Americans lean libertarian. <br /><br />Seems to me like 23% + 40% is a heck of a combination. But a Culture War is not going to win that 23%. At least not for long.<br /><br />BTW I'm in the 23% and support Palin and Hoffman. But if they start up with the Culture War Crap I'm going for the Communists for an election or two. Just to punish them. In the same way the Conservatives are punishing the RINOs. Heh.<br /><br />Conservatives seem just as susceptible to <b>I WON</b> as Captain <b>Zer∅</b>. And you know that is not sustainable. <br /><br />Hubris is a terrible disease. Get the cure. A servant's heart (thank you Sarah).M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.com