tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post7227240957890034605..comments2024-02-24T00:37:43.087-05:00Comments on The Other McCain: Was 'Divide and Conquer' Among Alinsky's Rules?Robert Stacy McCainhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03084541621503669804noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-65428380340317490282009-11-07T00:09:12.338-05:002009-11-07T00:09:12.338-05:00managed to get Democrat Bill Owens elected in a so...<i>managed to get Democrat Bill Owens elected in a solidly Republican Upstate New York congressional district. They accomplished this feat by driving the Republican candidate, Dede Scozzafava, from the race because of her apostasy on abortion and gay rights.</i><br /><br /><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/05/AR2009110504335.html" rel="nofollow">Democrat Press spins it as gays and abortion</a><br /><br />I think Frank was correct.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-38164493180406553182009-11-06T10:47:29.780-05:002009-11-06T10:47:29.780-05:00Anonymous said...
Anyone who thinks that pro-...<i>Anonymous said...<br /><br /> Anyone who thinks that pro-life is a losing issue at the polls is not paying attention. Anyone who thinks that spending billions and even trillions of dollars occupying entire nations in the middle east to put pressure on a handful of angry goat herders is a winning issue is also not paying attention.</i><br /><br />Abortion is a regional issue. A NATIONAL political party should treat it that way.<br /><br />==<br /><br />And yes. Angry goat herders are no existential threat. OTOH if they get WMDs they will be more of a problem.<br /><br />Best to civilize them first.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-56421624617928448672009-11-06T04:18:07.947-05:002009-11-06T04:18:07.947-05:00Moderates decide elections.
Of course moderate i...Moderates decide elections. <br /><br />Of course moderate in Texas is not moderate in New York City. Calibrate the candidates accordingly.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-57016895209050558972009-11-06T04:02:32.525-05:002009-11-06T04:02:32.525-05:00Pro-life wins in some places and loses in others. ...Pro-life wins in some places and loses in others. We ought to calibrate our candidates accordingly. <br /><br />I think strong libertarians like Ron Paul and Sarah Palin do well all over the nation. Both are socons BTW but neither (despite MSM efforts to tar them) run on a Culture War platform.<br /><br />And yes. Replace the RINOs with libertarian Republicans where socons can't win. Local sensibilities matter. <br /><br />Had Hoffman also been on the Libertarian line in NY that might have been enough for him to win. It worked in Queens. <br /><br /><a href="http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2009/11/libertarian-wins-in-queens.html" rel="nofollow">Libertarian Republican Wins In Queens</a><br /><br />As I said a number of threads back: A libertarian/socon alliance is unbeatable.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-81974953962750350352009-11-05T22:05:24.472-05:002009-11-05T22:05:24.472-05:00"What animates Republicans in the upstate is ..."What animates Republicans in the upstate is a deep economic conservatism..."<br />The problem is that they NEVER practice or show any interest in "economic conservatism"! Take Snowe for example. A perfect NE republican who describes herself as a "New England economic conservative"; she voted for Bush's 08 stimulus, TARP, Obama's stimulus, Cash for Clunkers, and has given her nod to socialist Healthcare. Now, those bills had nothing to do with 'social conservatism", but she voted for all of them.<br /><br /> In fact the whole fiscal conservatism/social liberal position is a canard anyways. They not only supports abortion, they support federally subsidize abortion services. <br /><br />The key to remember about Hoffman is that in less than 60 days, he went from being a CPA to a national figure who managed greater than 46% of the vote, all while coming under attack from people who should have supported him. So much for conservatism being dead or conservatives not able to compete in the NE.<br /><br />Bottom line: The fuck with RINOs. My money went to Hoffman and will go to Rubio, but not one fucking penny to the NRCC or the NRSC.PCP Smokernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-75398554243626723482009-11-05T21:24:41.851-05:002009-11-05T21:24:41.851-05:00Anyone who thinks that pro-life is a losing issue ...Anyone who thinks that pro-life is a losing issue at the polls is not paying attention. Anyone who thinks that spending billions and even trillions of dollars occupying entire nations in the middle east to put pressure on a handful of angry goat herders is a winning issue is also not paying attention.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-44913663662842663372009-11-05T16:50:23.474-05:002009-11-05T16:50:23.474-05:00Well said, Mike....I mean, sure you didn't say...Well said, Mike....I mean, sure you didn't say anything, but you typed it without too many grammatical errors.timbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11840503196010960235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-33390526103028034602009-11-05T15:44:07.534-05:002009-11-05T15:44:07.534-05:00If the Republican party ever drops its pro-life pl...<i>If the Republican party ever drops its pro-life plank while abortion on demand is the rule of the day it will lose its most fervent supporters.</i><br /><br />Well then. I guess small government (the right to be left alone) and lower spending are not enough for you. <br /><br />So the deal is: we small government types can't win nationally with you and we can't win nationally without you. <br /><br />What good are you?<br /><br />====<br /><br />We will be back adventuring in the Middle East because the new guy is giving away all the advantages Bush put on the table.<br /><br />Let me remind you that the lack of adventuring in the 30s gave us too much adventure in the 40s.<br /><br />Say isn't "Peace In Our Time" a good Christian Hymn? Or at least part of one?<br /><br /><a href="http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/church-hymns/church-hymn%20-%200626.htm" rel="nofollow">Yes It Is</a>M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-74541775582395528412009-11-05T15:38:21.425-05:002009-11-05T15:38:21.425-05:00If the Republican party ever drops its pro-life pl...<i>If the Republican party ever drops its pro-life plank while abortion on demand is the rule of the day it will lose its most fervent supporters.</i><br /><br />That is exactly right. Without social conservatives, the GOP is finished.<br /><br />Much like Ronald Reagan before her, Sarah Palin seems to have found an effective way of presenting a balanced Republican message that draws social conservatives as well as those of a more libertarian bent.Mike LaRochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14175538263768215381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-7202106947196946952009-11-05T15:18:31.175-05:002009-11-05T15:18:31.175-05:00While it is hardly appropriate for the Republican ...While it is hardly appropriate for the Republican party to push an explicit agenda making the federal government Christian it is not inappropriate for it to provide a bulwark against the the more extremist secularists on the left who wish to use the federal government to drive Christianity into small corners never to be heard from in the public sphere again. If the Republican party ever drops its pro-life plank while abortion on demand is the rule of the day it will lose its most fervent supporters. <br /><br />That being said, the campaign to drive the federal government back into the confines of the constitution that formed it ought to be the rallying cry of the political opposition. Just please let's stay away from immanentizing the apocalyptic visions that have provided popular support for so much of our late middle-eastern adventurism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-61768544172912581632009-11-05T15:10:31.406-05:002009-11-05T15:10:31.406-05:00I see that the professional blog troll/Jeff Goldst...I see that the professional blog troll/Jeff Goldstein stalker "timb" has crawled out from under his rock.Mike LaRochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14175538263768215381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-38909658438794825752009-11-05T15:01:39.517-05:002009-11-05T15:01:39.517-05:00@M. Simon,
You lost that one when a bunch of nutte...@M. Simon,<br /><i>You lost that one when a bunch of nutters decided to plant their States Rights flag to defend slavery.</i> <br />A distinction can be drawn between slavery and sexual expression, though we're not amidst an actual legal case here.<br /><br /><i>And making Senators beholden to voters and not States didn't help.</i> <br />Oh, the unintended consequences of the 17th Amendment.<br /><br /><i>You got screwed by your ancestors. Deal with it.</i><br />History is a source of lessons, not a prison. Amendments, e.g. Prohibition, have been struck. Whether the effort required to overcome the centralization of the last century wrecks the country or not remains to be seen.smitty1ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06559464300318848169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-57614176707781229112009-11-05T14:35:02.945-05:002009-11-05T14:35:02.945-05:00Tom said...
What will the argument be when a ...<i>Tom said...<br /><br /> What will the argument be when a federal judge rules on the premise that the federal constitution trumps the state law when it comes to a social issue?</i><br /><br />You lost that one when a bunch of nutters decided to plant their States Rights flag to defend slavery. <br /><br />And making Senators beholden to voters and not States didn't help. <br /><br />You got screwed by your ancestors. Deal with it.<br /><br />Your only recourse now is States willing to stand up against the Fed and Congress Critters who actually follow the Constitution.<br /><br />And the most pro-States Rights feller in government these days (if you count action) is Mr. Obama when he said that med pot is a States Rights issue. He should get props for that from Republicans. Of course he violates the principle in many other areas, but if you don't reward good behavior what are the odds he will even consider more of it?M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-88739889063158465382009-11-05T13:59:47.706-05:002009-11-05T13:59:47.706-05:00Thanks Frank,
And your Thu Nov 05, 01:00:00 PM
I...Thanks Frank,<br /><br />And your Thu Nov 05, 01:00:00 PM<br /><br />Is a gem.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-58106046252512347022009-11-05T13:00:02.163-05:002009-11-05T13:00:02.163-05:00Amen M. Simon,
And DaveP, I'll put my conserv...Amen M. Simon,<br />And DaveP, I'll put my conservative creds up against anyone's. Hell, I voted libertarian in 80 and 84 because Reagan was too big government for my tatses. Sorry you missed my point so completely on the theocrat comment. <br /><br />It was not to accuse anyone of being a theocrat, though that is what those who would supplant the Constitution with the New Testement most certainly are, but only to say those charges are inevitable when the social issues take center stage. Why play into them? <br /><br />The leftpress will seize, bend, lie, and mailiciously contort any hint of religion because it feeds their theocrat boogeyman narrative. Knowing this, how could emphasizing religious beliefs possibly build a larger audience than promoting fiscal sanity and smaller government? <br /><br />I would defend to the death your right to practice your religion but kill you in a heartbeat if you abuse my constitution to force it on me. <br /><br />I am not suggesting we keep the socons off the bus, just away from the steering wheel, and especially the microphone. Moderates, you know, the ones that actually decide elections, are about as comfortable with blatant displays of religiosity as socons are with are with a cross dresser in a gay pride parade. <br /><br />Using gay marriage and abortion as litmus tests for conservatism is as bass ackwards as it can be. These issues are inarguably about as personal as can be and in complete contradiction with one of, if not the pre-emminent fundamentals of conservatism - -minimizing government intrusion. (for the record I am pro-life and indifferent on gay marriage) <br /><br />My conservatism abides by the constitution that deliberately precluded the mixture of theology and governance. If that is liberal to you, you're part of the problem.Frankhttp://www.heartlandmurmurs.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-81563091050270153512009-11-05T12:08:59.222-05:002009-11-05T12:08:59.222-05:00Ric L,
The Democrats have nothing to do with brea...Ric L,<br /><br />The Democrats have nothing to do with breaking up the socon/libertarian coalition. The abortion litmus test so prevalent around here is more successful in doing the job than anything any Democrat could conjure.<br /><br />Remember when the R Party became a wing of the Moral Majority? Socons were overjoyed and then the Rs proved the proposition by getting politically involved in the Terry Schiavo case. It may have been wrongly decided (I don't buy that but for the sake of argument will accept the proposition) but it was definitely not a Federal Case. That was all it took.<br /><br />Now you own the brand. <br /><br />I suggest you do this. Keep repeating "I'm against abortion but I believe reproduction is none of the government's business". The Palin strategy.<br /><br /><b>I ♥ Sarah'cudda</b>M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-31244990783248276742009-11-05T11:55:27.400-05:002009-11-05T11:55:27.400-05:00Let me also note that marijuana is more popular in...Let me also note that marijuana is more popular in Maine than traditional marriage. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-78223041179665836312009-11-05T11:04:22.193-05:002009-11-05T11:04:22.193-05:00Making marriage a government issue was done by S...Making marriage a government issue was done by Southerners to prevent interracial marriage.<br /><br />You can look it up.<br /><br />Once the States got in the act the income Tax Federalized it.<br /><br />And don't even get me started on the public school system and forced attendance laws. Those were initiated by Protestants against Jews and Catholics.<br /><br />Alcohol was another socon "success". Billy Sunday ring a bell? And ongoing with drug prohibition. Fortunately we came to our senses on alcohol prohibition pretty quick. WE have let drug prohibition fester on.<br /><br />In the days when that was going on socons were Dems and Progressives. Huckabee is a remnant of that era.<br /><br />Socons are not blameless. <br /><br />Maybe the rest of the country is right to question socon hubris. It leads to nemesis.<br /><br />What we need to do now is to clean up the messes our ancestors made. And I think Palin is just the lady to do it. So there. I'm willing to work with a socon who has a servant's heart. Where are the rest of you on the servants heart question? May I note she appointed a pro-abortion judge?<br /><br />As long as the Republican Party is branded the Moral Majority Party it is going to have trouble winning votes in the East and West.<br /><br />How about a Branding Campaign? <i>Smaller government and lower spending. <b>And this time we really mean it.</b></i> Heh.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.gop12.com/2009/03/readers-respond-over-palin-abortion.html" rel="nofollow">Palin's Planned Parenthood Judge</a><br /><br /><i>Die-hard, pro-life activists are contorting themselves into every possible shape to try and forget that Sarah Palin has appointed a former Planned Parenthood advocate to be the decisive vote on the state's supreme court.</i><br /><br />Now there is a candidate I can get behind. Small government. Pays attention to the voters. Lives her life according to her principles. <br /><br />Sounds pretty good to me.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-55707873843315118972009-11-05T10:59:44.763-05:002009-11-05T10:59:44.763-05:00Mike LaRoche, any time you want to take your third...Mike LaRoche, any time you want to take your third world state and leave to become a third world country, you let us know. Don't let the door hit you in the a$$ and all.<br /><br />And, for those who missed it, turning a Republican district with Republican moderates into a Democratic seat because campaign workers kept yelling about abortion? Thanks for that. We on the left appreciate it. If y'all could take down Charlie Crist and Carly Fiorina, so we can guarantee Democratic wins, I'd sure appreciate it.<br /><br />This intra-party stuff is the funnest thing ever.....well, until I have to vote for that DINO Evan Bayh again. But, I do it because I'm a grown up and not some child screaming about how ideology is more important than governing. <br /><br />Finally, Demographics: A lesson Ric Locke apparently never learned. Hint: Ric, only 43% of the white folks who elected Reagan voted for Obama, but Obama won. See, just having your "coalition" isn't an absolute majority any longer. There aren't enough of you.timbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-79510560887122875272009-11-05T10:37:24.499-05:002009-11-05T10:37:24.499-05:00A small tent Party is a good thing. And I have to ...A small tent Party is a good thing. And I have to tell you my friends - socon arrogance is not a vote getter. If votes are what you want.<br /><br />How about this Republican mover and shaker and mom coming out for <a href="http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2009/11/marijuana-legalization-is-republican.html" rel="nofollow">Marijuana Legalization</a>. <br /><br />Which won by 58% in Maine. <br /><br />And how about a Libertarian Republican Conservative <a href="http://libertarianrepublican.blogspot.com/2009/11/libertarian-party-election-results-5.html" rel="nofollow">winning a City Council Seat</a> in Queens. <br /><br />If you want a nation wide party you might consider that giving the libertarian wing of the party more scope might help.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-75466387570610676062009-11-05T10:16:12.261-05:002009-11-05T10:16:12.261-05:00@smitty:
Ok, I may have missed your overall point...@smitty:<br /><br />Ok, I may have missed your overall point then, and bad on me. I suppose since the cons, both EconCons and Socons, are fired up right now, it only makes sense to try to turn them against each other...<br /><br />@Kn@ppster:<br /><br />I fully admit to being a looky-loo when it comes to NY-23: there's no earthly reason I should be interested in that race except that it became a national proxy fight. (Which, to me, is the best explanation for why Hoffman lost: the non-ideological voters didn't want a national proxy fight in their backyards, and I can't really blame them.) My interpretation therefore is entirely based on the national response, which came about only after Hoffman approached/passed Dede, and which focused on fiscal issues with Dede's voting record. I think if one is to draw any national lessons from this campaign, you have to look at the dominant narrative while Hoffman was competitive and not the narrative prior to that point. (But see Jay Cost for why we shouldn't even try.)jamielandeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03703517861984728961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-50090251667627305162009-11-05T10:10:56.926-05:002009-11-05T10:10:56.926-05:00Pah.
The Reagan Coalition was fiscal conservative...Pah.<br /><br />The Reagan Coalition was fiscal conservatives plus social conservatives. If the two work together, they form an absolute majority, not just a plurality.<br /><br />The Democrats' focus ever since Reagan's first term has been to bust that up. They appear to have succeeded, in large part because of "Republican moderates" who agree on separating out the social cons as beyond the Pale.<br /><br />Congratulations. You have just moderated yourself into irrelevance.<br /><br />Regards,<br />RicRic Lockehttp://warlocketx.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-34658776829912848842009-11-05T08:17:31.145-05:002009-11-05T08:17:31.145-05:00@Estragon:
At least your post got posted...@Estragon:<br />At least your post got posted...The Right Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02000916651068780486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-61090151171312928812009-11-05T05:53:48.169-05:002009-11-05T05:53:48.169-05:00I'm conservative on economic, social, and nati...I'm conservative on economic, social, and national security issues. On other issues I'm like a libertarian (without all the kiddie porn).<br /><br />But if you are "personally as socially conservative as they come," I do not understand this suggestion to "relax" at all.<br /><br />Sure, there are ONLY a few hundred abortions in this country every single day . . . relax? Relax? <br /><br />Fight only on the state and local level? Why, if the Constitution were respected, I'd agree, BUT it is not. Any state or local restrictions are stricken by FEDERAL courts. Relax?<br /><br />You claim to be "as socially conservative as they come." You keep using these words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.<br /><br />Relax?Estragonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10429699109866973316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4223398383609158624.post-23419735103522498092009-11-04T23:35:26.617-05:002009-11-04T23:35:26.617-05:00Smitty:
See, that's what I have a hard time u...Smitty:<br /><br />See, that's what I have a hard time understanding .... social cons are always being accused of wanting to impose a theocracy & they're always the "BIGGEST thing to fear"... hard to believe considering how little influence they've actually had on the law over the past 30+ years.<br /><br />Here's what ticks me off - - - the Frums, Lindsey Grahams, et al. tell us Republicans should focus on economics, smaller government, fiscal responsibility, national defense, etc. and soft pedal the social issues .... and then they're nowhere to be found on any of the issues they say we should 'focus' on.<br /><br />Senate Republicans made Porkulus happen. Republicans made the prescription drug benefit happen, a benefit which added still more obligations to a program careening toward bankruptcy. <br /><br />Congressional Republicans haven't demonstrated devotion to any principle beyond keeping their butts firmly planted in the House / Senate seats until they're carried out of the Capitol feet first. <br /><br />If the Frumistas want to build a "new" party, perhaps a bit more attentiont actually accomplishing something (though it would leave less time for complaining about those icky people who won't just shut up and vote for 'us') would be in order.BDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08890441868492239563noreply@blogger.com